If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

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If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by JM1776 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:43 pm

... have completed the quest?

I answered this question elsewhere thus:

Tolkien has made clear that no mortal being could have resisted the Ring sufficiently to cast it into Mount Doom. Even the extraordinarily moral and compassionate Frodo, at the last, claimed it for himself.

Cap, moral paragon though he is, would have eventually done the same, and likely even before Frodo did, because it was the little hobbit’s understanding of his own weakness that in part enabled him to resist the Ring’s allure.

In contrast to Frodo, Cap is strong both morally and physically. Like Gandalf, he would have wanted to do good with the Ring, and would have become an irresistible warrior and general who’d have outmaneuvered Sauron in the field and outfought him face-to-face (his shield allowing him to tank the Dark Lord’s most formidable offensive melee weaponry). Then, after a victory celebration and "honeymoon" that would have had Middle-Earth believing that he really hadn’t been corrupted by the Ring, he’d have set up, in his desire to see justice for all, a state that would have started out well-intentioned but become intolerably fascist with a startling rapidity.

In his fall Cap might very well have been far worse than Sauron or Hydra Cap ever was.
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Re: If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by sirus » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:10 am

Love the thought, but it does ignore the one character to fully resist the ring who was still both mortal and wore the damn thing.

Samwise, Samwise was tempted by the ring while wearing it and he is one of the only to shrug it off. It might have been an exposure thing, but I think Sam was so pure the ring couldn't fully take him, or even really work it's will over him. Sam is used to others mentally overpowering him, so it is interesting to see him resist the ring.

Also, is the ring more powerful than the Mind Stone? Because the Vision might have been able to throw the ring into the fire and with the events of Infinity War in mind, he is mortal.
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Re: If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by JM1776 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Sam had the Ring so briefly that his resistance to it, while laudable, and demonstrating his extraordinary goodness and willpower, doesn't remotely compare to the steely determination of Frodo, who owned it for years, carried it for months, wore it on a number of occasions, and still managed to reach Mount Doom before succumbing. He achieved the very precipice of its destruction before claiming The Ring as his own. If not for the intervention of Eru, Sauron would have been, at the last, victorious.

You're mistaken, though, in that Sam did not fully "resist the Ring". Because Sam knew himself to be 'little', he turned aside its first (and due to circumstance only) serious foray to overcome his will, which clearly shows us that his native goodness and force of personality exceeded Smeagol's tremendously. But who knows how many times it pressed Frodo, only to be ignored or overcome? One must presume either dozens of times, or constantly. It became the kind of spiritual weight that no other persons, with the exceptions of Gollum and Isildur, could have imagined. Not even Sam could know what dealing with that would have been like.

And I don't for an instant concede that Sam's will exceeds Steve's.

Comparing The Ring and The Mind Stone is pointless. They are from universes conceptualized very differently, and serve different storytelling purposes.

The Ring is the essence of a fallen angel from a high, though not the highest, order. As a Maiar of the greatest native power, Sauron before his degradation may well have been what angelologists call a throne or even a cherub. (I am assuming for the sake of this comparison that the Valar themselves are seraphim.) Remember, Tolkien lived his entire life a devout Catholic, and Middle-Earth rings with the timeless beauty of that faith in its purest form, though anonymous and not yet come to fruition.

I stand by my statements.

[Edit: I closed an open parenthetical phrase. My apologies.]
Last edited by JM1776 on Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by Michael » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:43 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:43 pm
Like Gandalf, he would have wanted to do good with the Ring, and would have become an irresistible warrior and general who’d have outmaneuvered Sauron in the field and outfought him face-to-face (his shield allowing him to tank the Dark Lord’s most formidable offensive melee weaponry). Then, after a victory celebration and "honeymoon" that would have had Middle-Earth believing that he really hadn’t been corrupted by the Ring, he’d have set up, in his desire to see justice for all, a state that would have started out well-intentioned but become intolerably fascist with a startling rapidity.

In his fall Cap might very well have been far worse than Sauron or Hydra Cap ever was.
I think the above is probably the best argument against Captain America completing the quest to destroy the Ring.

I don't think the Mind Stone weighs in Vision's favor because as you point out, they are quite different objects.

However, in Vision's favor I think (at least Vision of the MCU) is that he is able to lift and wield Mjolnir. Again, Mjolnir and the Ring are quiet different, but I think it interesting to consider the ability to use Mjolnir as a point in favor of being able to resist the Ring.

However, I believe I remember that Cap once wielded Mjolnir in the comics, so maybe not... as I think your argument above still holds for Cap.
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Re: If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by JM1776 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:24 pm

Thor is another argument entirely. Mjolnir is easily more powerful than the Ring, so ... but relative to their literary cosmologies, the Ring is more important.

Cap is worthy of Mjolnir in the comics ... as are Beta Ray Bill, Odin, Buri, Bor, Jane Foster, Dargo Ktor, Woden, Wonder Woman, et al.

Vision never wields it there, but Galactus' reconstituted Air-Walker android/robot does, which means that mechanical beings may do so and bypass the worthiness enchantment, so presumably Vision could do so, as well.

That's why he was able to do it in the MCU, arguably.
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Re: If Captain America/Steve Rogers (Marvel) had been given The One Ring to take to Mount Doom, could he ...

Post by Jpatten » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:00 pm

I would have to agree that Cap would have ultimately sucummbed to the ring, and agree it would have happened more quickly than withodo. Though I would think that perhaps he would recognize the danger and like Gandalf refuse to take the ring Knowing he couldn't take it. Sam was able to give it up because he was even more humble than Frodo was, who if you recall, was willing to give it Gandalf, and even Galadriel at first. Sam also had incredibly short exposure to bearing the ring and was able to still be whole.
Though A deep dive into the One Ring and its symbolism and effects delve into Tolkien's cathollic faith and the nature of sin and redemption which fall outside the scope of this forum.
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