Direct commissions in Starfleet?

A place for discussion of all forms of Roleplaying.

Moderators: jayphailey, AslanC

User avatar
Triton
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 2084
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by Triton » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:44 pm

CamSPD wrote: As for McCoy... According to Memory Alpha, Emony Dax met him while he was a student at the University of Mississippi, so he wasn't in medical school yet (UofM from 2245 - 2249, med school from 2249 - 2253). Startrek.com does not say he ever attended Starfleet Academy, and all Memory Alpha says on the subject is:
McCoy was known to have been divorced and enrolled in Starfleet Academy in the alternate reality by 2255. It is unknown when this happened in the prime reality.

Thus, one could say he did, but you could just as easily argue the opposite and say he didn't. He did have a lieutenant commander's commission by 2266 when he joined the Enterprise crew under Kirk, so sometime between 2253 and 2266 he either attended the academy or was granted a commission by Starfleet. We know he was an admiral in 2364 when he retired for the last time.
I always believed that Leonard H McCoy in Star Trek TOS was granted a direct commission into Starfleet. He does not know the slang term dunsel used by midshipmen at Starfleet Academy in the episode "The Utlimate Computer." I presume that had he been a midshipman, McCoy would have been well versed in Starfeet Academy slang and he not would have had to ask what dunsel meant.

It makes no sense to me that McCoy in JJ Trek must attend four years of Starfleet Academy when it is already established that he is an MD. Why would you have to get another BA/BS degree when you already have an MD degree?

I guess there could also be such a thing as a Starfleet Medical College to which McCoy applied after graduating from the University of Mississippi with his BA/BS degree in the Prime timeline.

Wikipedia says the following about the United State Navy Medical Corps:
However, facing a shortage of trained physicians to serve the needs of the Navy and Marine Corps, the Uniformed Services Health Professions Revitalization Act of 1972 was passed. This was a two-pronged act in which the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences and the Health Professions Scholarship Program were created.[1] In both programs, civilians are given a direct commission to the rank of Ensign (rank) (O-1) in the United States Navy Reserve which they hold throughout the four years of their medical education. During this time they receive financial assistance on the condition that they meet reservist requirements, maintain military standards, and agree to serve on active duty as physicians. The commitment required is at least 4 years for HPSP and 7 years of service for USUHS students.

Upon graduation, the new physicians are promoted to the rank of Lieutenant (O-3) and enter active duty as medical interns (PGY-1) at a Naval Hospital.

Upon completion of an internship year, a Navy physician usually is deployed to the fleet as a General Medical Officer, though opportunities also exist to complete full-residency training in the specialty of their choice or undergo 6 months of training to become a Flight Surgeon or Undersea Medical Officer.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_Medical_Corps

So I don't see why Starfleet wouldn't offer direct commissions to MDs or grant reserve commissions to students in medical schools.
"Fortune favors the audacious" -- Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus (October 28, 1466 – July 12, 1536)

JM1776
Federation Ambassador
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 13725
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsyltucky
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by JM1776 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:19 pm

Triton wrote:So I don't see why Starfleet wouldn't offer direct commissions to MDs or grant reserve commissions to students in medical schools.
Assuming they're given appropriate course work, and not considered line officers unless their weight of experience warrants it, there's absolutely no reason not to do so.
"Thinking of a reason, well, it's really not very hard
to love you even though you nearly lost my heart"

User avatar
HSmith
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:45 pm
Location: Third Star to the right and straight on till morning
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by HSmith » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:28 pm

JM1776 wrote: Assuming they're given appropriate course work, and not considered line officers unless their weight of experience warrants it, there's absolutely no reason not to do so.
Well, Dr. Crusher is Qualified to be Duty Officer (and the only officer on the bridge). Future Dr. Crusher gets her own Olympic Class Hospital Ship to Captain.

Back to Troi:
There are several episodes where Troi is referred to as Lieutenant one I am thinking about is the one where the Captain and Dr. Crusher went on a secret Mission and the other Captain took over. He called Troi and told her to wear a starfleet uniform. Another is when she sees Doctor Crusher on the Bridge and Troi takes the course to become a Bridge officer (I don't think they would offer that course to civilians.)

Back to Direct Commissions:
It is one of the vague areas of Starfleet. I would say that it makes sense for certain staff and science/medical positions to recruit the best minds throw them in uniform and have them work exclusively for Starfleet, but this is one that I think is best up to the writer and his Star Trek Universe.
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.

tbone0514
Petty Officer 1st Class
Petty Officer 1st Class
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:02 pm

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by tbone0514 » Mon May 14, 2012 3:56 pm

I always had this idea that Medical Officers attended Two years of Starfleet Academy and Two years of Starfleet Medical Academy.....you get all the Medical Training you need and two years and all the Basic Starfleet information you will need in the other two....just my thoughts lol
To die....now thats the greatest Adventure.

User avatar
AdmiralSirJohn
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 5993
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: Aboard USS Marshal Martz, NCC-78506 (though physically in Jamestown, NY)
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by AdmiralSirJohn » Mon May 14, 2012 5:53 pm

I suspect an MD takes more than two years, just like it does now. Nurses and medics could do it two, but I can't see a doctor getting his/her/its degree that fast.
Image
(Yes, the image is me, but the photomanip wasn't done by me.)

User avatar
captainuniverse
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 7319
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by captainuniverse » Mon May 14, 2012 7:29 pm

AdmiralSirJohn wrote:I suspect an MD takes more than two years, just like it does now. Nurses and medics could do it two, but I can't see a doctor getting his/her/its degree that fast.
Unless they were Data who probably would just download whatever information he needs. Of course, he wouldn't have the practical experience to be a good doctor. There's book smarts and there's street smarts.
"All of Time and Space; everywhere and anywhere; every star that ever was. Where do you want to start?"

"Geronimo!"

Thanks to FltCpt. Bossco for my Tattok avatar. This is Tattok when he assumed the position of Commander-in-Chief, Starfleet in the year 2411.

JM1776
Federation Ambassador
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 13725
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsyltucky
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by JM1776 » Mon May 14, 2012 7:45 pm

Data would be a masterful surgeon or researcher, and a horrendous GP.
"Thinking of a reason, well, it's really not very hard
to love you even though you nearly lost my heart"

User avatar
captainuniverse
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 7319
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by captainuniverse » Mon May 14, 2012 8:21 pm

I hate to imagine if he was a OB/GYN.
"All of Time and Space; everywhere and anywhere; every star that ever was. Where do you want to start?"

"Geronimo!"

Thanks to FltCpt. Bossco for my Tattok avatar. This is Tattok when he assumed the position of Commander-in-Chief, Starfleet in the year 2411.

User avatar
Jacob Williams
Crewman 1st Class
Crewman 1st Class
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:11 pm
Location: California, United States

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by Jacob Williams » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:11 am

As stated above numerous times, nothing suggests it canonically. <- (Wow, that really is a word.) However, I am a big fan of the idea. As a medical assistant and future nurse, I love to play medical types. This would help age down my characters a bit and add a little to the personality. I would assume however that they are given instruction on Starfleet procedure and the like. That should take more than a year or so.

User avatar
AdmiralSirJohn
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 5993
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: Aboard USS Marshal Martz, NCC-78506 (though physically in Jamestown, NY)
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by AdmiralSirJohn » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:15 am

Actually, a medical type would probably only go through the functional equivalent of what is now known as Initial Entry Training (what they used to call Basic Training), which only takes about twelve weeks or so...

There's an episode of China Beach that illustrated that quite well, though I forget the actual episode title...
Image
(Yes, the image is me, but the photomanip wasn't done by me.)

User avatar
Jacob Williams
Crewman 1st Class
Crewman 1st Class
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:11 pm
Location: California, United States

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by Jacob Williams » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:03 pm

That'll certainly cut down on the age factor. Four years of Pre-Med. Four years of Medicine. Direct commission, then perhaps residency in a Starfleet hospital or medical frigate. If done correctly, a lieutenant before 27.

User avatar
AdmiralSirJohn
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 5993
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: Aboard USS Marshal Martz, NCC-78506 (though physically in Jamestown, NY)
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by AdmiralSirJohn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:08 pm

Actually, if Starfleet works anything like the US military on which its based, doctors are commissioned at lieutenant and nurses at lieutenant jg right out of school, so I'd say Lt. Commander by 30 is not unknown among doctors.

Of course, if the schooling as at Starfleet Medical (i.e. Bashir), then the rank is slightly lower, but I would expect such people to have a better qualification in interspecies medicine.
Image
(Yes, the image is me, but the photomanip wasn't done by me.)

User avatar
Jacob Williams
Crewman 1st Class
Crewman 1st Class
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:11 pm
Location: California, United States

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by Jacob Williams » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:49 pm

AdmiralSirJohn wrote:Actually, if Starfleet works anything like the US military on which its based, doctors are commissioned at lieutenant and nurses at lieutenant jg right out of school, so I'd say Lt. Commander by 30 is not unknown among doctors.
Even better. *Updates character profile* :twisted:

Although, a lot of CMO are either Lieutenant Commander or Commander, which means Medical Officers do not seem to advance much.

User avatar
AdmiralSirJohn
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 5993
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:21 pm
Location: Aboard USS Marshal Martz, NCC-78506 (though physically in Jamestown, NY)
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by AdmiralSirJohn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:57 pm

Correct. Medicine is not known for rapid advancement. Neither is engineering or security, for the most part.
Image
(Yes, the image is me, but the photomanip wasn't done by me.)

User avatar
HSmith
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1301
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:45 pm
Location: Third Star to the right and straight on till morning
Contact:

Re: Direct commissions in Starfleet?

Post by HSmith » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:38 pm

AdmiralSirJohn wrote:Correct. Medicine is not known for rapid advancement. Neither is engineering or security, for the most part.
Unless tied to an event/invention/occurrence then all bets are off and your career would be on the fast track
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.

Post Reply