The premiere episode of The Orville ...

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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by JM1776 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:32 am

captainuniverse wrote:What I'm saying that The Orville is bringing attention to everything that Star Trek used to focus on.
What you're saying is correct.

The problem, though, is that it's not Star Trek, and the more it tries to become/be just that, the more it exposes itself to a series-ending lawsuit.

I mean, this is moderate to fairly high quality fan fiction/pastiche with a huge budget, plain and simple.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by captainuniverse » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:19 pm

Indeed. I would hate for them to become a pariah like Anaxar.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by JM1776 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:25 pm

captainuniverse wrote:Indeed. I would hate for them to become a pariah like Anaxar.
I'll assume you mean Axanar. :P
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by sirus » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:24 pm

I find it interesting the fear of lawsuit is this strong. The thing is Axanar was sued because it used copyrighted material from Star Trek, thus far Orville hased used none of that material.

The designs of the races, ships, and even languages is different. The uniforms aren't even all that similar when you get down to the details. They don't share department colors, insignia, or even rank pips. The Orville is like the store brand cola to Star Trek's coke/pepsi. It is similar enough to please some, but it is not so similar as to warrant a lawsuit.

And I think the reason it feels as similar as it does is because they are telling the same type of stories Star Trek used to. It "feels" like Star Trek more than it actually "is" Star Trek.

Axanar was Star Trek. Orville is Star Trek adjacent. It is a space based military naval comedy drama that uses the tropes and storytelling technique of Star Trek without using the name or copyrighted material of Star Trek.

In addition check out the lawsuit documents and you will notice that Axanar was sued for using a variety of things from Star Trek Canon, including Garth of Izar, Klingons (and their language), Vulcans, and the United Federation of Planets. These concepts and their usage is protected by copyright. Axanar used them and thus violated that copyright.

But the Orville has the Union, and as far as I know there is no such thing as a Tribble in the universe of the Orville.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by captainuniverse » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:02 am

JM1776 wrote:
captainuniverse wrote:Indeed. I would hate for them to become a pariah like Anaxar.
I'll assume you mean Axanar. :P
I did. Thank you for correcting me on that. I hate misspelled words.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by Gazomg » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:07 pm

if the people responsible for trek spent less time trying to fuck with people who do a decent job , like axanar, orville etc and concentrated on improving their own shit product, they would not look like the petty bastards they are coming across as.
Yes Axanar could be accused of stepped on toes, Orville is sailing close to the wind, but it seems knocking any perceived competition for viewers is more their concern than focusing on their own product.

I enjoy Orville, as I set the bar low and see the show as a good watch in comparison to the rubbish which makes up 95% of all televised content on our screens these days
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by JM1776 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:17 pm

sirus wrote:Orville is Star Trek adjacent.
sirus wrote:And I must say it is nice to have Star Trek on TV again. Kinda odd that it's on Fox, but whatever.
As we say in Star Trek, and with apologies to little Willy, "Hoist on your own Picard."

Abrams' stuff is Trek in Name Alone. The Orville is Trek in all but name.

I'm now officially dreading my initial look at the first episode of Discovery.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by LStyer » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:22 pm

sirus wrote:I find it interesting the fear of lawsuit is this strong.
There's no need to fear a lawsuit at this point. I suppose if a particular Orville episode was far closer to a particular Star Trek episode than any has been so far, or maybe the same with a character, then a lawsuit might be feasible, but what we've seen so far isn't even in the ballpark of actionable.
They don't share department colors, insignia, or even rank pips.
Orville's rank insignia may be the specific detail closest to one in Star Trek. Captain Mercer has four stripes, Commander Grayson has three stripes, the various Lieutenants have two stripes, and Bortus and the Doctor, who I think hold the rank of Lieutenant Commander have two "regular" stripes and one skinny stripe. That's pretty close to the 4, 3, 2, 2 and a ring, system used in pretty much all of Star Trek except TOS, and which I'm not aware of any real world military using. Does any real military use a similar visual system?
It is a space based military naval comedy drama that uses the tropes and storytelling technique of Star Trek without using the name or copyrighted material of Star Trek.
I'm not even sure how fair it is to say that it's the "tropes and storytelling technique of Star Trek." Star Trek popularized a lot of this stuff, but wasn't exactly the originator.

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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by LStyer » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:26 pm

I thought the first episode of The Orville was so-so, but good enough for me to give it another shot. The second episode was better, but not much, though again enough to keep me coming back. The third episode was excellent. It's what Star Trek once was and ought to be again. The fourth episode didn't quite reach that level, but was solid. The fifth was as good as the third, but a completely different sort of episode, which gives me real hope that this show has legs.

My opinion on Discovery seems to be a little less negative than the consensus around here, but I'm still glad we have The Orville scratching the itch that the official Star Trek series seems incapable of scratching.

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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by JM1776 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:14 pm

Interesting that people assert The Orville isn't sufficiently derivative to inspire a lawsuit, but constantly refer to it as Trek-like or even as Trek.

I find myself wondering if there isn't a back-room agreement between Fox and Paramount/Viacom to let this show do its thing.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by LStyer » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:10 pm

JM1776 wrote:Interesting that people assert The Orville isn't sufficiently derivative to inspire a lawsuit, but constantly refer to it as Trek-like or even as Trek.
That's simply not the legal standard for a copyright infringement claim. Axanar literally used specific elements and characters from Trek that are protected by copyright. The Orville, so far, does not.
I find myself wondering if there isn't a back-room agreement between Fox and Paramount/Viacom to let this show do its thing.
There doesn't need to be.

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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by amehatrekkie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:29 am

i watched all 5 episodes over the previous week, it was cute and enjoyed it and is very much trek in everything but name.....from the previews i saw of discovery, i dont even care that i don't have access to it.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by Jpatten » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:14 pm

I have Enjoyed Orville so far. I have to admit it was better than my expectations. And it feels like they have dialed back the crudity of the humor some from the first episode which to be honest I appreciate. It still has a fairly light-hearted feel and I think that keeping humor in it will be good.
At the same time I think it may be moving toward a more dramatic dynamic in that I would not be surprised to see some fairly heavy stories at times. It will take real talent to keep moments of humor and levity while also telling stories with dramatic heft. All too often it feels like one or the other is shoehorned in to the other. I think it is key to balance both sides.
I have seen shows that are comedies force in dramatic episodes to make a point and it feels off or when a "serious" show tries to be funny it often seems awkward.
I hope that is the show advances that the actors will find the voice of their characters and the writers will be able to take the actors personalities and such and build the characters around that so the show grows.

Though I have to admit the design of the orville feels a bit strange to me. I keep looking at it expecting it to hold some sort of subtle off color joke in its design. I am not sure if that is because of who the show creator is or if there really is something there.

I like it overall but somehow it feels just not quite practical to the point I think there is something there.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by JM1776 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:31 pm

Despite the dismissal, though, I'm not the only one thinking about this.

FOX CEO Diana Walden offered, "We obviously have a big legal team. We vet things, so it's not like we're just flying by the seat of our pants out here. I can't imagine, especially when you see the direction that the Star Trek franchise is moving, that anyone involved would consider it anything other than a compliment."

LStyer seems to have the current pulse of it: CBS is holding its cards close to the vest by refusing to comment, and Fox remains unconcerned.

As a few pundits have pointed out, though, if it gets to the point where CBS feels threatened, their restraint may change.

I trust my instincts, because they're almost always spot on. They tell me this isn't over yet.
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Re: The premiere episode of The Orville ...

Post by amehatrekkie » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:18 am

Orville is pretty close to the look and feel of star trek but it's NOT star trek....there are many terms they can use from star trek without any legal concerns (starship, Federation, nacelle, warp, certain planet names, etc) that paramount can't copyright. i'm not worried about a lawsuit and hopefully orville will keep getting better.
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