Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:29 pm

Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:10 pm
Michael wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:52 pm
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:25 pm
I think there is clearly a policy where having a trans or non binary person in a show could lead to people using that to attack people who will complain.
What evidence do you have to support that such a policy exists?
the fact a moderator on trekcore accused me of being a bigot and banned me.
Assholes think any criticism is anti something or other, and using their position to try control people. When I spoke up and put him in his place with facts and asked him to point a single example of such bogotry, he not only banned me but deleted my posts, and his own as well as he knew he was caught out
How does what happened between you and a forum mod support the idea the writers and producers have the policy you suggested about the characters they have on that show?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Gazomg » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:53 pm

I think you are not grasping what is being said,

"the people" I am speaking of, are the people on forums, the moderators etc who when they see criticism of a character like Burnham automatically assume the criticism is based on some agenda. Not the writers of the show. That is the point I am making.

As for the producers, writers of the show, this is a separate issue, they can add as many characters as they wish, its their show, but the writing sucks, burnham totally dominates the show, and unless the writing is improved, the new characters will suck as well due to the bad writing.

When people complain about the writing and the characters, the "people" who suddenly and wrongly assume it is some agenda,are those mods and forum members who get defensive and start to insinuate there has to be a hidden agenda.

I hope that clears it up.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:03 pm

Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:53 pm
"the people" I am speaking of, are the people on forums, the moderators etc who when they see criticism of a character like Burnham automatically assume the criticism is based on some agenda. Not the writers of the show. That is the point I am making.
Given that your previous post:
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
I was saying the writers in an effort to cover their shitty writing , lack of vision etc, think bringing in the diverse characters will mask the bad writing and we will all somehow forget the writing is shit. I am not saying it will work, in fact I am suggesting they will end up with even more characters with no direction on the show.
... was about the writers, it seemed to follow that the next post:
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:25 pm
I think there is clearly a policy where having a trans or non binary person in a show could lead to people using that to attack people who will complain.
... talking about a policy with a person in the show, was a continuation of talk about writers.

Since you say that's not the case, I'll accept it as being about other forums and move on.

- - - -

However, back to that previous post...
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
I was saying the writers in an effort to cover their shitty writing , lack of vision etc, think bringing in the diverse characters will mask the bad writing and we will all somehow forget the writing is shit. I am not saying it will work, in fact I am suggesting they will end up with even more characters with no direction on the show.
I still don't understand how a writer would think having a diverse cast could mask bad writing, somehow making viewers forget the writing was bad. I can't imagine any writer who would think that would work. I can't accept that as their motivation without something definitive showing they hold that point of view.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:27 pm

And for more news about season 3 of Discovery, a new trailer was released today:



I like what I see in this trailer. It has a very cinematic feel to it.

I will admit to being a little bit apprehensive. Now that they aren't bound by canon (in the sense of no longer being in the 23rd century), this could go either very well, or very bad. But considering I've for the most part enjoyed the two previous seasons, and since most past Trek shows have taken two to three seasons to get into their stride, I am looking forward to this season.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Gazomg » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:44 pm

When I type "people", I mean people in general, if I type "writers", then I am referring to writers, I thought this was obvious to everyone.

So lets do this yet again and again look at my initial posts you quoted.


quote :1
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:53 pm
"the people" I am speaking of, are the people on forums, the moderators etc who when they see criticism of a character like Burnham automatically assume the criticism is based on some agenda. Not the writers of the show. That is the point I am making.
This above quote is about people in general....hence the use of the term people^^^^


Quote :2
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
I was saying the writers in an effort to cover their shitty writing , lack of vision etc, think bringing in the diverse characters will mask the bad writing and we will all somehow forget the writing is shit. I am not saying it will work, in fact I am suggesting they will end up with even more characters with no direction on the show.
The above quote is about the writers....hence why I typed the word "writers", and NOT people, to differentiate between the two groups.


Quote :3
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
I think there is clearly a policy where having a trans or non binary person in a show could lead to people using that to attack people who will complain.
This was about the people in general, not the writers, hence why I said people and not writers.Hence why you were combining both groups and mistaking posts about writers with posts about the average person.


-----

As to your final part as to why a writer might think adding a character would mask bad writing, no one has said it would mask the bad writing, but the writers might feel they would get far less negative feedback because they gave the fans diversity, but in the end shit writing is shit writing no matter who is in the show and the evident flaws would still be an issue.
You only have to look at how people...not writers, get so defensive that right away any person with criticism is suddenly suspected of having an agenda. And whilst people jump down the throat of anyone that dares to complain or criticize, there will be less people complaining ergo less grief for the writers....
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Michael » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:59 pm

Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:44 pm
Quote :3
Gazomg wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:50 am
I think there is clearly a policy where having a trans or non binary person in a show could lead to people using that to attack people who will complain.
This was about the people in general, not the writers, hence why I said people and not writers.
I think it was the word "policy" which threw me off.

As to your final part as to why a writer might think adding a character would mask bad writing, no one has said it would mask the bad writing, but the writers might feel they would get far less negative feedback because they gave the fans diversity, but in the end shit writing is shit writing no matter who is in the show and the evident flaws would still be an issue.
Every Trek show has given us a cast with diversity, so I can't see why a writer would even begin to think giving the fans diversity would impact feedback.
And whilst people jump down the throat of anyone that dares to complain or criticize, there will be less people complaining ergo less grief for the writers....
I don't think people complaining gives the writers grief. Less people watching, yes. But people on the internet complaining? No.

People have always complained about Trek. There were a lot more heated complaints about TNG's first two seasons.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Gazomg » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:22 pm

It seems to me a persons criticisms towards trek is not based on merit but what character the criticism is aimed at.
I have slated Picard, the show, and slated discovery, but people defend discovery more and wrongly presume the criticisms of the writing and /or burnham,

I hope the new characters are given proper material, but the realist in me knows if the original cast of discovery were given shit, chances are the new additions to the cast will be given the same shit writing.

The optimist in me hopes the writing improves, as I want to enjoy the show, christ knows we all like decent trek, and season 2 was far better than season one, which was not hard to do, and Anson Mount was the star of series 2 and was given a pivotal role, he was an already established character in trek, and Anson is a talented guy.

I am sure if I mentioned this elsewhere, someone would use that as a stick to beat me with and say, oh look your star of season 2 was a straight while male and people would try to infer an agenda where none exists. The problem for season 3 is with pike gone, I dont see the new additions getting that amount of screen time,that Pike had which leads me to believe burnham will again dominate the show.

On the plus side, we should hopefully be free of the mirror universe, and section 31 there is no need for and should not be in season 3, and with no major big name announced for a long term addition, I am hoping that screen time can be a lot more evenly spread out for the character.
And they sort out the lighting as well :D
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by Ronin » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:24 am

Having seen the trailer and basic story - I feel like the season needs a cameo from Kevin Sorbo ... for some reason.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by JM1776 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:54 pm

Ronin wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:24 am
Having seen the trailer and basic story - I feel like the season needs a cameo from Kevin Sorbo ... for some reason.
That may be the single best one-liner you've ever delivered here.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 3

Post by jayphailey » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:43 pm

So. I watched the Season 3 opener. I liked it. It moved a lot and established a lot of things.

I have Ep 2 in the buffer and will watch it this evening.

One thing That strikes me about Disco nd Picard - they are much better at showing the darkness against which the Federation is a reaction. They are showing by it's failure and absence why the Federation is a good thing, and why the PCs must work to maintain it and not take it for granted.

The old saying goes "You can't have light without the darkness" contrast shows.

The whole point of Disco and Picard is that the Federation isn't just there. People have to make it happen and in these shows we see the result of people not doing this.

This is also the heroes journey. If it was easy everyone could do it and our heroes wouldn't be remarkable.

So they must pick up the torch and blaze the trail for everyone else to follow.

But this means you're much closer to the wilderness and the darkness. You don't need a hero holding up a torch and showing the way when things are good. Their job comes into play when things are NOT good.

So. This season of Discovery borrows from old GR notes and the set up for Andromeda.

I enjoyed the first episode and the characters. I will keep watching. I am not saying, in any way that my opinion is binding or to be followed, you do you.

Since.... Forever, Star Trek has been doing things where I say "I wouldn't have done it that way"

In some ways this is what Fan Fic is for. To fix the things we'd have done differently. Or at least show the alternative view.

But, Honestly, I think Kurtzman has a better ethical compass than Berman or Braga. I watched them really struggle with defining challenging and having their characters work to embody good guy-ness. Although the Kurtzman trek PCs are doing so against a darker backdrop, once they figure it out, they seem pretty clear on what being the good guy means and their desire to carry that out.
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