In another forum I was asked ...

Star Trek related discussion, information, links, etc.

Moderator: Dancyer McCoy

Forum rules
You are free to offer your opinions on a show, episode, book, film, film series, cinematic universe, etc., as long as it applies to that item, and not to the stated or assumed political views of the producers, writers, actors, key grip, best boy, intern, etc., of said item. In short, you want to talk about a show or movie, talk about the show or movie.

Others are free to disagree with your opinion. (You are not entitled to express your opinion in a vacuum.) BUT that opposing opinion must follow the same requirements above that the original opinion had to follow, as well as not bringing in the assumed political views of the original poster. (I leave out "stated" as they should not state any political position here on STPMA.)

ALSO, do not toss about derogatory labels at someone who offers an opinion in opposition to yours. No name calling, political labels (SJW, etc.,) questioning their humanity, morality, ethics, true fan status, or your assumption they are in the business to protect a certain fandom (gatekeeping, etc.). Again, discuss the show or movie not the politics or motives of another poster.

If you dislike something, it's perfectly fine to say so. However, posting your dislike every time someone else says anything positive about a show or movie, essentially stating the same thing over and over again is not acceptable. If you have something new to add, or are replying to a specific point in someone else's comment, okay. But if it's just to state once again, "IT SUCKS!" Don't.
Post Reply
JM1776
Federation Ambassador
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 13969
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsyltucky
Contact:

In another forum I was asked ...

Post by JM1776 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:12 pm

... In Star Trek: Nemesis, why did Kathryn Janeway get promoted to admiral before Picard?

My answer:
Janeway received a flag rank because Starfleet couldn’t toss a galactic hero into the pokey, despite her innumerable documented crimes in the Delta Quadrant. So they did the next best thing: Promoted her to admiral and gave her a job where she had tremendous visibility but virtually no power. The only time we see her is informing Picard of his assignment on Romulus, a decision no doubt made far above her pay grade. She’s a glorified errand girl, and that’s the best place for her: The public thinks she’s been rewarded, and the harm she could do the Federation if out there making decisions from the center seat is avoided.

If you’re a Janeway fan and find this interpretation offensive … too bad. It’s time on target.
Feel free to disagree if you wish. I respect your right to be wrong.
"'You think you're pretty smart, don't you, Trebek, what with your Dago mustache and your greasy hair."

User avatar
Michael
Senior Admin
Senior Admin
Posts: 13596
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 10:32 pm
Location: North of the North Pole
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by Michael » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:13 pm

While I believe that's a logical reason for her promotion, to keep her from causing any more trouble, I think a more interesting one in terms of Janeway the character is that she went through a pro forma "court-martial" and was given a slap on the wrist. She was pretty full of herself, and about to be handed another command when someone she respects (maybe someone from Voyager, or perhaps someone from her past, a mentor, or Academy instructor) goes to her on the night when the entire Federation is celebrating her bringing Voyager home, replete with speeches, fireworks, and brass bands, and this individual lays it all out, unloading the truth Janeway has refused to acknowledge even existed, but they do it in a way in which she cannot deny the reality of who she has become.

This person relentlessly lists off Janeway's crimes. Janeway finally breaks down under the pressure and the shear volume of it all, but at the same time feels relieved. The burden of command, the burden of all those lives, especially the ones who didn't make it back, and the burden of all those things she did which violated her oath, fall off of her shoulders, and finally after seven years of blindness, she sees clearly again.

And with this new understanding of herself, and what she had done, she goes to Starfleet command the next day, ready to resign, but they need her to remain in their ranks. If she were to resign, someone might ask too many questions. So she takes the position they offer her as a junior level admiral in Starfleet Operations. She doesn't make any real decisions, but for Janeway, that's the point-- to put a barrier between herself and her worst instincts. Yes, they were the instincts which got her crew home, but she knows those instincts have no place in what she wants to believe Starfleet is.

Anyway... I'm not sure where all that came from, but Manno's musings always make me think, and often inspire me to jot down something I otherwise wouldn't have considered.
-Michael Gray
Image
"In Great Deeds Something Abides"

User avatar
Gazomg
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 2338
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:11 am
Location: The Emerald Isle
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by Gazomg » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:33 pm

She came back from the delta quadrant and held in high esteem for her and her crews endeavours, so they gave her a token admiral job.
Sometimes a promotion is actually not a step forward but a step back.


Making Janeway an admiral meant they could keep her close instead of her running roughshot some where else on another ship.
Image
MANIPULATIONS ON MY SITE - 3,203 - JANUARY 20th

JM1776
Federation Ambassador
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 13969
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsyltucky
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by JM1776 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:41 am

Michael wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:13 pm
While I believe that's a logical reason for her promotion, to keep her from causing any more trouble, I think a more interesting one in terms of Janeway the character is that she went through a pro forma "court-martial" and was given a slap on the wrist.

Janeway finally breaks down under the pressure and the shear volume of it all, but at the same time feels relieved.

So she takes the position they offer her as a junior level admiral in Starfleet Operations.

Anyway... I'm not sure where all that came from, but Manno's musings always make me think, and often inspire me to jot down something I otherwise wouldn't have considered.
If you recall, I wrote a trilogy on this very subject for Star Trek: Liberty, entitled, The Reckoning, from which perhaps some of your ideas are recycled.

And it's "sheer" volume, unless you're cutting some of it off. :wink:
"'You think you're pretty smart, don't you, Trebek, what with your Dago mustache and your greasy hair."

User avatar
Michael
Senior Admin
Senior Admin
Posts: 13596
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 10:32 pm
Location: North of the North Pole
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by Michael » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:13 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:41 am
And it's "sheer" volume, unless you're cutting some of it off. :wink:
Janeway was buried in fresh wool.
-Michael Gray
Image
"In Great Deeds Something Abides"

JM1776
Federation Ambassador
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 13969
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:27 pm
Location: Pennsyltucky
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by JM1776 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:42 am

Michael wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:13 pm
JM1776 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:41 am
And it's "sheer" volume, unless you're cutting some of it off. :wink:
Janeway was buried in fresh wool.
Evidently Kathy had a little lamb ...
"'You think you're pretty smart, don't you, Trebek, what with your Dago mustache and your greasy hair."

User avatar
Bry_Sinclair
Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Posts: 1936
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:53 am
Location: Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by Bry_Sinclair » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:27 pm

Picard has never wanted to be promoted to Admiral, so of course others will be promoted over him. He is staying on the bridge of a starship doing what he loves.
Avatar: Captain Adele Beaumont, [i]U.S.S. Shepard[/i]
Artist: gazomg

User avatar
Michael
Senior Admin
Senior Admin
Posts: 13596
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 10:32 pm
Location: North of the North Pole
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by Michael » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:45 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:42 am
Michael wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:13 pm
JM1776 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:41 am
And it's "sheer" volume, unless you're cutting some of it off. :wink:
Janeway was buried in fresh wool.
Evidently Kathy had a little lamb ...
... who was fleeced by Snow White.
-Michael Gray
Image
"In Great Deeds Something Abides"

User avatar
amehatrekkie
-the weird one-
-the weird one-
Posts: 10609
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:53 pm
Location: Earth, North American Continent, Southeast USA

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by amehatrekkie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:04 pm

in the novels, the whole crew got a promotion.
Ahmie K-[ay][aka Adam Kriegel], Captain of the Department of Weird yea i'm weird
STPMA WORLDBUILDING EXPERT[ RIP MJ!!] Normal people scare meAging is inevitable, maturity is optional
https://imgur.com/a/bUvNm

User avatar
captainuniverse
Federation Attaché
Federation Attaché
Posts: 7485
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: In another forum I was asked ...

Post by captainuniverse » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:40 pm

I probably would have done the same thing that Mister Manno did by court-martialling her. Keeping her at Headquarters with no power is a good idea. Of course, I don't think that Admiral Janeway should be commanding the Full Circle fleet in the books. Her relationship with Captain Chakotay was a long time coming but I liked him better with Seven of Nine. I saw more chemistry there between them in my mind.

Anyways, I'll crawl back into my own corner of the Star Trek universe.
My avatar is Captain Weynik, commander of the Defiant-class starship USS Ajax, which is part of the USS Surefoot universe.
https://usssurefoot.blogspot.com/

This photo manipulation was made by FltCpt. Bossco.

Post Reply